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Obamacare: Now That We Know, What Do You Think?

Everybody has weighed in on what was possibly going to happen with the Supreme Court health care ruling. Now that we know, what do you have to say about it?

This morning at just after 10 a.m. the Supreme Court health care ruling finally came down. It was the most anticipated ruling in recent times. The outcome, according to early media reports, is that the individual mandate was struck down as unconstitutional - however, the health care law survived with the individual mandate being ruled constitutional as a tax.

For months everybody has speculated. By Wednesday, dueling press conference had been scheduled, even though nobody was sure what they would be saying. Well, now we know.

So what do you think? Is the Supreme Court ruling the one you expected and is it one you agree with?

Msgoff July 01, 2012 at 01:30 AM
"People who scream don't force me to buy are most likely the scammers who hit the hospital and don't pay. Why pay when you can get others pay for you." Greg, I don't have statistics to back up my opinion, however, I doubt this is the case. I think most of the people who "hit the hospital" really can't afford to pay. I think the people who are screaming are those who can afford to purchase insurance for a large number of people who cannot afford to purchase insurance. Check out an emergency room and see who's sitting there waiting for help and what their problem is. BTW, this is an aside. I was in the emergency room at the behest of my physician because I hate to go there. After many hours there and dinner time nearing I was quite hungry. I was asked if I wanted one of their stale sandwiches or something else less appealing. I was told that this particular ER no longer gave meals to people who were patients because people were coming in off the street complaining of illness so they could get a hot meal. SAD, very SAD!
Msgoff July 01, 2012 at 01:34 AM
I agree, and Mitt Romney can buy the office without raising any money and still have lots left over. Perhaps he should fund a health care reform program/buy insurance for all who cannot afford it. ;-)
Msgoff July 01, 2012 at 01:50 AM
Brian, I am reasonably sure that GA residents who are insured through Medicare received a rebate for some reason :-o. Perhaps GA residents in this case were able to receive a rebate because Medicare is a federally run program, rather than state run. Thanks GA politicians from preventing us from getting our share and ____ knows most of us need it!!!
Msgoff July 01, 2012 at 02:03 AM
If you are interested, here's a link to show the penalty that a MA taxpayer will incur if not insured. http://www.massresources.org/health-reform.html Someone may have said this already, I can't remember; however, the reason one cannot opt out of certain parts of an insurance program that does not pertain to them at the moment is that once that particular need arises and coverage is needed, you have not paid into the "pool" which provides that coverage. Think of it as the cost of life insurance when you are 25 versus the cost when you are 65; HUGE difference. Someone mentioned insurance as being a "pool" and money is collected there to cover the needs of all who are enrolled in that "pool." The reason why one company's insurance plan may cost more than another.
Msgoff July 01, 2012 at 04:56 AM
There's that single vs married discrimination again. a single person gets a surcharge on Medicare taxes paid on $200,000/yr. and a married couple, even if both are employed gets taxed on $250,000. I mention this because another tax that discrimates on single vs. married is the capital gains tax on a home. A single person can own a home next door to a two income married couple, yet the single person has a limit of $250,000 in capital gain when the home is sold and the married couple gets $500,000. The single person can have raised children alone and the married couple not, but the amount is set regardless.
R++ One of the Famous Dacula Crew July 01, 2012 at 09:50 PM
Cassie the difference in cash payment vs. insurance is very much like the difference between cash and credit prices at the gas pump, carried to the extreme. The lag of charges incurred vs receiving payment for services after submitting more than one time is staggering. Charges are increased because of the sliding scale of reimbursement vs charged amounts, if you will only receive 50 percent of the charge listed, you double that service fee to get your payments. Simply put - blame finance charges that are built in to the current process... And then you have to generate cash-flow to pay for services that aren't paid for elsewhere. And the NEW program NOT being a "tax increase" on all Americans is simply the definition of what "is" is. You can't be lowering prices if you ADD a roughly 3 percent tax to all medical devices. You in fact just RAISED the cost of EVERYTHING, unless visit a doctor that uses NO tools in his/her practice.
R++ One of the Famous Dacula Crew July 01, 2012 at 09:55 PM
Actually the uninsured "fee" / penalty/ "tax" may hit only a small percentage. But the taxes increased in this plan HIT EVERYONE who uses the services of any doctor at all, since there is a new roughly 3 percent tax on ALL Medical devices. I don't see how MEDICAL costs / prices drop when TAXES are added/increased? But I am open to be schooled on the matter.
Msgoff July 02, 2012 at 06:24 PM
R, would you please direct me to the section about the 3% tax penalty on medical devices. I am interested because I am trying to learn more about this. My opinion with anything written by our politicians is that it is difficult to decipher, which is what is generally referred to as "legalese." A few months ago, I wrote my State Rep with a similar comment about some law that was being considered and how sometimes they try to cover too many things and it can end up causing another problem. This bill was put on hold so they could review it and clean it up (my words).
Msgoff July 02, 2012 at 08:52 PM
Thanks. So if a medical device costs $200, the total would be $204.60. In that case it is less than what the co-pay would be for most insurance companies. Somehow, I think many of us are operating on hype and lack of knowledge. It also appears that most of us are looking at this along party lines, as opposed to if it will really have a positive effect or will it have a negative effect on us. And that's too bad! After thought: we really need to have unbiased discussion groups in an effort to understand this program and stop fighting each other. The link that I posted earlier to a MA website listed some of the effects of it.
R++ One of the Famous Dacula Crew July 02, 2012 at 10:04 PM
"Shark Jumping" a hobby that can now be played by all
Msgoff July 02, 2012 at 10:55 PM
I should have written that the "excise tax" would be $4.60. I'm thinking the medical device will be covered by a person's medical insurance.
Brian Crawford July 02, 2012 at 11:05 PM
Here's a health reform quiz from Kaiser. I scored 10 of 10, how about you? http://healthreform.kff.org/quizzes/health-reform-quiz.aspx
Tammy Osier July 08, 2012 at 11:12 PM
Read this. Good read by Marco Rubio and an interview of small business owners. http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-07-08/opinion/os-ed-guest-column-rubio-070812-20120706_1_obamacare-individual-mandate-new-taxes Here's an excerpt: He assured the American people that the individual mandate wasn't a tax. But when Obamacare was challenged in court for violating the Constitution, he changed his tune, arguing that it was permissible under Congress' taxing power. The court agreed and upheld Obamacare. The bait and switch proved to be a brilliant legal strategy, but a disastrous economic policy. For millions of Americans, including job creators, Obama's political win is now an IRS problem for them in the real world. Obamacare is bad policy that adds around $800 billion of taxes on the American people. It does not discriminate between rich and poor. It hurts everyone.
Msgoff July 09, 2012 at 01:58 AM
I hope "Obamacares" is a brilliant legal strategy as well. There are too many people in this country without adequate healthcare and they are not all minorities (racial) or poor people. It is all around us. Are we our brother's keeper?
Msgoff July 09, 2012 at 02:02 AM
I forgot to ask the source of $800 billion taxes; please provide your reference. I'm hoping to look at all aspects of this in order to make a well-informed decision. Thanks
Tammy Osier July 09, 2012 at 01:30 PM
Msgoff- did you read the article or just the excerpt? You may be able to find more resource by doing that. Marco Rubio actually gets out and talks to the little man who will bear the brunt of this. Obama says only millionaires!" but ask the small businessman who grosses $250,000, what he spends that money on. He doesn't pocket that! By the time he pays employees, orders more product, pays overhead for business, insures his employees etc... the poor guy probably brings home $30,000 a yr. The first few years don't even show a profit. I know - I have many small business owner friends. The small business owner probably has one car in his garage and modest home like the rest of us. Tax him to death, and he'll lay off, or not hire. That affects the little guy. So, you go to the so called millionaires, and suck them dry, government still owes promised money. Who do they go to? You got it: Middle class. It looks good on paper, but doesn't work in reality. The article offers a solution. By all means read it.
Tammy Osier July 09, 2012 at 01:41 PM
I will add, though, that we do need better solutions and Republicans had better step up to the plate if they want a shot at it. This should have been addressed years and years ago. It's a shame it hasn't been which is probably why people have been so eager to embrace and accept what has been offered currently without pouring over it with a fine toothed comb.
Brian Crawford July 09, 2012 at 08:49 PM
The Congressional Budget Office estimates less than $400 billion in tax revenues over 10 years. http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/03-13-Coverage%20Estimates.pdf
Tammy Osier July 09, 2012 at 09:41 PM
. What people fail to realize is that numbers might be similar etc... BUT it's the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT making the decisions that people object to most, thus the long wait, the gov't deciding whether you are too old to receive a hip replacement since they figure you'll die soon anyway. Look at veterans and their care, or ask a doctor how much they enjoy (not) waiting on payment from the government. That's the point. It's possible to find Rubio's webpage and ask him where he got his figures. He may be quoting from the projected through 2016. I'll do that when I get a minute tonight.
Tammy Osier July 09, 2012 at 09:49 PM
Here's some reliable resource material (It passed the "grant" muster) lol: http://www.atr.org/full-l...e-tax-hikes-listed-a7010
Sharon Swanepoel July 09, 2012 at 10:04 PM
Cool - we no longer have to go to snopes.com now that we have a grantcheck.com.
Gail Lane July 09, 2012 at 10:40 PM
I've found grantcheck to be pretty reliable in the past! :)
Brian Crawford July 09, 2012 at 10:53 PM
Sorry, it is a bit obtuse. From page 2, "Offset in part by about $0.4 trillion in receipts from penalty payments, the new excise tax on high-premium insurance plans, and other budgetary effects (mostly increases in tax revenues)." If you add the projected tax revenues from "Table 1" at the end of the report you actually come up with $315 billion over 10 years. I'm looking forward to the new numbers although I don't know of any changes that should drastically impact the revenue side.
Brian Crawford July 09, 2012 at 10:55 PM
Sorry about that Leon, it is a bit obtuse. From page 2, "Offset in part by about $0.4 trillion in receipts from penalty payments, the new excise tax on high-premium insurance plans, and other budgetary effects (mostly increases in tax revenues)." If you add the projected tax revenues from "Table 1" at the end of the report you actually come up with $315 billion over 10 years. I'm looking forward to the new numbers although I don't know of any changes that should drastically impact the revenue side.
Brian Crawford July 09, 2012 at 10:57 PM
Got the 404 on that link good buddy, over.
Kathy July 10, 2012 at 01:00 AM
As a parent I find the changes about pre-existing condition clauses, removal of lifetime caps, extension of coverage for children till they're 26 and the prevention of being cancelled due to illness ALL major positive changes for my family and millions of other families who find themselves in less than ideal situations due to chronic illness and disease. The cost of Healthcare as well as reform is an immense issue looming over us as a nation. It is an issue that is not going away and up till now not much has been done to address it. No it isn't perfect. Yes, there are as of yet unknown consequences coming down the road that will need attention, adaptation and further changes. My hope is the necessary tweaks will be allowed to happen rather than be caught in a political stranglehold where we all lose. What I find most strange is the number of people who would have embraced this entire plan without so much of a flinch had it been made law by "the other side" of the political coin but because it is Obama or Democrats it is essentially evil and our world is coming to an end. A big Thank you to the folks who provided the links to Kaiser and "howstuffworks". I appreciate having access to the information. I am enjoying the discussion here and appreciate the calmness with which it is being presented.
Msgoff July 11, 2012 at 07:21 PM
No, I did not read Rubio's article. It would have been correct for you to use quotation marks around the $800 billion of taxes or whatever is cited from Rubio's article. It also appears to me that you are saying "Obamacare is bad policy." I would ask you to cite references as to how you reached that determination, and hopefully, it would be more than one reference used in order to make that statement.
Msgoff July 11, 2012 at 08:23 PM
BREAKING NEWS!! The House just voted to repeal health care reform. It is unlikely to pass the Senate because it is majority Democrat. This was reported on Channel 2 News. More money will be spent to fight this than will be spent on providing good health care for all people. That's why we elect adults to represent us right? JK
Msgoff July 11, 2012 at 08:32 PM
Kathy, when I read your comments in my email inbox I found them very touching, as they are now as I re-read them and write this. Emotional!! We need to care more about each other and not allow politics, or whatever it may be, to override our sense of humanity and love for people. Health care is extremely costly these days and we must find a way to control the cost, yet allow all people access to proper health care, from prevention to cure. I can't tell you how often the words, "I don't know how parents with young children manage these days," come out-of-my-mouth. Lurking in my mind are the words, "and dental health care too." Poor dental care contributes to many health issues that we do not even think, or know about.
Tammy Osier May 24, 2013 at 11:45 PM
Found this, thought it was interesting. Unions are shocked that obamacare has unintended consequences http://www.caintv.com/unions-shocked-to-discover-oba

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