As Election Day draws nearer, many polls show President Barack Obama and former Gov. Mitt Romney running neck-and-neck nationally -- but a decided, if slight, advantage for Obama in the electoral vote.
Each state gets a certain number of electoral votes, based upon its population. In order to win the presidency, either Obama or Romney must win at least 270 of the 538 total electoral votes.
The system has the effect of making your vote count a lot more in "swing states" -- states where the majority could conceiveably vote for either candidate -- than in other, more politically predictable states. It is a virtual certainty, for instance, that Georgia will vote for Mitt Romney, so an individual Georgian's vote for Barack Obama doesn't mean a lot -- Georgia's 16 electoral votes are going to be cast for Romney. Conversely, an individual voter's choice for Romney in ultra-blue New York won't stop that state's 29 electoral votes from going to Obama.
However, a voter in a state like Ohio -- where the race is much closer -- wields a lot more power. Ohio's 18 electoral votes could -- and probably will -- decide the presidential election.
And that leads to a bit of a conundrum. The national race is very tight, with many polls showing Romney with a slight lead. Most polls in Ohio and other swing states like Wisconsin, however, show an advantage for Obama. It's entirely possible that Obama could win the electoral vote -- and thus a second term -- while losing the popular vote.
It's happened before. In 1876, Rutheford B. Hayes won the presidency by a single electoral vote, but lost the popular vote to Samuel Tilden by a margin of 250,000, according to FactCheck.org. In 1880, Benjamin Harrison won the electoral vote while losing the popular vote to Grover Cleveland. And perhaps most famously, George W. Bush won an electoral victory in 2000 while losing the popular vote -- barely -- to Al Gore.
Obviously, it's not an ideal situation. Which raises the question: Should the Electoral College be abolished? Is it time we elect our president by direct, popular vote? Or should we stick with the system we know? Tell us what you think in the comments below.
Karsten Torch
11:04 am on Thursday, November 1, 2012
God, no. There's a reason the founders didn't have us voting directly for the President. We need to go back to voting for our Representatives, and letting them pick the Senate and then the Senate pick the President. That way we'd all pay more attention to who our Representative is. And probably be in a whole better situation nationally.
Good Grief Y'all
11:39 am on Thursday, November 1, 2012
Yeah, cause that will work. Hello Tea Party. The Founding Fathers couldn't possibly have foreseen how the USA (the world!) and its people would evolve and expand and change several centuries later. The FFs lived in a world without modern communication - no instant info highway, ummm . . . no highways. Letting state legislatures or representatives pick the candidates would dilute the individual vote even more. No thanks!
Karsten Torch
12:30 pm on Thursday, November 1, 2012
Are you somehow under the impression that the FFs would be more impressed with us now than then? Really? We watch Honey Boo Boo and have no idea who our Representatives are. When asked, most respondents couldn't tell you what Benghazi is. As a nation, we pay no attention to anything, and care more about who the next American Idol is than who our next state Senator will be. Yup, they'd be all about putting everything to the popular vote.
They didn't like the idea of a democracy. It's why we were established as a republic. It was kind of on purpose. Democracy is mob rule, and could never lead to anything good.
Good Grief Y'all
1:33 pm on Thursday, November 1, 2012
I think the FFs would be impressed with quite a bit. Not everything, of course, certainly not the misinformation (lies) put out by candidates and pundits, unchecked by "journalists", voter apathy and civic ignorance. You paint everyone with the same broad brush. That's pretty cynical. Elected officials aren't always as good as the voters who choose them. There's more potential for fraud and rigging, less oversight with fewer hands in the process. The aspiration of power is, well, a powerful thing. Greed, maybe moreso. Some candidates will say or do anything to get elected :) So would your representatives who would choose Senators, who would choose the President. I don't watch Honey Boo Boo or any other (mostly scripted) reality shows, except for the singing and dancing contests. I like those as they're entertaining to me. Again, painting with a broad brush is an unfair assessment of the American electorate. I'm glad it's not up to just you or me, but election issues do need serious consideration of reform, after tax reform and immigration reform but definitely before the next Presidential election, which is probably too ambitious. As I said before, I didn't like the Electoral College system in 2000, but I do in 2012. I'm guessing just the opposite is true with you. I think a lot of the Southern voting bloc would not like the popular vote system.
Good Grief Y'all
11:05 am on Thursday, November 1, 2012
Depends on who's running. When Gore won the popular vote in 2000 but lost the election because of Jeb Bush's State of Florida election shenanigans, I was very much anti-Electoral College. What a different - and by that I mean better - America and world this would be now with a Gore presidency for 8 yrs instead of what we got. For this election, I'm counting on it. It's too close for my comfort. When and if election reform to ensure every legal vote cast is counted without error, fraud or tampering, campaign finance reform is achieved and Citizens United is overruled - the Electoral College can go away. In that reality, very vote should count as cast.
Tammy Osier
6:07 am on Friday, November 2, 2012
Good grief - here's why we don't have the popular vote. What if slavery is popular at the moment? Then, we would again enslave men. Majority rule could never work for that reason.
We populations of people who have a greater majority than others. Every vote still does count. If the popular vote is overshelming in a state, the nthe electorals can change. Like KT sqaid, it is our responsibility whom we put in high office on the local level. It makes us pay more attention. Although, I do wish we could somehow consider the two and come to a conclusion based on both.
Good Grief Y'all
6:32 am on Friday, November 2, 2012
Your example is quite the stretch, T.O. Voting for our government officials is not like voting for homecoming queen or American Idol. Those are popularity contests. I don't think the American electorate falls into that pot. I believe most vote for substance over style. You're using a false equivalency. Majority should rule and not a super majority as in the Senate. A few shouldn't rule over most. Your standard is that popular vote has to be overwhelming. Mine is that it is the majority, which is 51%.
Tammy Osier
6:09 am on Friday, November 2, 2012
GG- you just tipped your hand and showed why popular vote would never work. people are so partisan, that one party could get in power and stay that way. What if that party was Repubiican. Would you still want the popular vote?
Good Grief Y'all
6:46 am on Friday, November 2, 2012
Tipped my hand? I was very forthcoming, not hiding my views at all. People are partisan, so true ;) One party staying in power indefinitely would not happen. Voters can be fickle and restless, bored even. They like to shake things up, often to their own detriment. There's too much money in politics for one faction to stay in too long. That works both sides. With good and fair election reform the Electoral College, which just complicates the system, can be replaced. The people who make their money on TV with all their electoral charts and maps will have to find something else to harp about. That would be a good thing. Oh, I wouldn't like the current Republican Party in indefinitely or at all. Would you want the Democratic Party in, ever? No matter how bad the R party is, I know the answer. When the President wins because of the Electoral College system, will you still want it in place? With his re-election, you'll see the Rs start a movement to do away with the EC. We shall see as time will definitely tell.
Tammy Osier
6:33 am on Friday, November 2, 2012
Here's a great article by Armstrong Williams and although does not discuss electorals specifically, does show why popular vote is not a good thing.
http://www.newsmax.com/ArmstrongWilliams/Obama-favorability-rating-ideas/2012/11/01/id/462290
Tammy Osier
6:50 am on Friday, November 2, 2012
Gg- you aren't in it for the long haul, only short term. In other words...your opinion shifts according to whether you are getting your way or not. Hardly a good way to conduct business in government.
Good Grief Y'all
9:32 am on Friday, November 2, 2012
No ma'am, my opinion doesn't change. Too bad yours doesn't. I'm still, always have been, for the good guys and the best solutions. I just think we have to handicap a less than perfect system until it's fixed, as was proven in 2000. I am most definitely in it for the long haul. What is your problem, always with the snark and sh!! slinging comments? You don't have the right to speak for me or define me or others. You're having enough trouble with your own narrow definitions. Judgey aren't you? You're bad about that. It's the height of arrogance to make the statements you do about anyone who disagrees with your world view. You need to work on putting away that sideswiping and snarky style you have in your writing. All the above is my honest opinion. I don't want to get in trouble with the moderators. I think that's what you're supposed to do - always qualify with "my opinion" I have found lots of posters get away with the worst stuff by using that qualifier.
Mary Lou
8:41 am on Friday, November 2, 2012
I dont think the popular vote should decide because too many people wont take the time or effort to truly research and make an informed opinion. No matter which side of the isle you sit on. People vote for a variety of different reasons, and unfortunately, some as meaningless as not any policies, but how cute or attractive they find the candidate. Popular vote might work, if we raised the voting age to 30. Neither should happen. I think the popular vote leaves too much room for even more dishonesty than there already is, and waaaay to much room to cheat the system. JMHO
Good Grief Y'all
9:19 am on Friday, November 2, 2012
It's obvious too many people don't research and make an informed opinion now. Has nothing to do with the voting system, rather with human nature. Some people are just easily distracted by shiny objects.
Chris
9:30 am on Friday, November 2, 2012
Shiny objects like Hope and Change?
Sportsfan
9:49 am on Friday, November 2, 2012
Yea, Shiny Objects Like Hope, Change Hot Air, Redistribution, Tyranny, Forced Healthcare, Union Support, Scandals All Around, A Fat Wife That Isn’t Proud Of Her Country, Air Plane Rides Everywhere, Every Day, Record Welfare Claims, Class Warfare, Green Energy Failures At My Grandchildren’s Expense, Chosen Winners And Losers. It Never Ends!
Good Grief Y'all
12:15 pm on Friday, November 2, 2012
Good grief, Sportsfan. Bitterness is bad for one's health.
Good Grief Y'all
9:38 am on Friday, November 2, 2012
Hope and change are good shiny objects, Chris. Lies, the latest shock "reporting" from Fox, et al, flipping talking points to suit the audience - bad shiny objects.
NY Dumpster Diver
10:12 am on Friday, November 2, 2012
Chris lies? Did I miss something. She asked a question.
Mary Lou
9:49 am on Friday, November 2, 2012
I'm distracted by BS and people wanting the easy way out at the expense of my hard work and efforts. I get distracted because I have to fight my way in the working world and land of opportunity, rather than stay focused on growth. Too much energy when having to defend what I should not be having to defend. A brief synopsis of MY life: without, hopefully, giving away my age(its a woman thing..lol)and I will probably have to break into 2 posts. I got pregnant when I was 16, 17 when I had my first child. I moved out of my parents house(by my choice, not theirs), worked 2 jobs and saved the 888.00 is cost then to have MY child. My thought process was my parents raised me, this was not on them. I got my GED, went to college at night to be able to get a better paying job, all the while taking care of my child and continuing to work. Some of those times were a bur still to this day from lack of sleep. I never once received food stamps or welfare(too proud) and wasn't what I wanted for me and my child. My child's father, we weren't married, so I guess you could criticize me for having a child out of wedlock. Of coarse we make stupid decisions when we are young, but I took accountability for mine. that young relationship ended in a few shorts years and moved on through a few more immature decisions and set myself back.
Mary Lou
9:56 am on Friday, November 2, 2012
cont- When I was 21, I briefly moved back in with my parents, never asking them for a dime of money(still working about..a job and 1/2) my parents didnt charge me rent, so I took what I would normally have had to pay for rent, saved it, then bought a wagon and some food to make nice sandwiches (gourmet) extras, drinks, and flowers and some other nice extras. I would get up at 4am and assemble nice lunches and load them into my wagon, borrowed my parents mini-van(I had basically a beater car) and would head out to various local repair shops, beating the roach coach truck there, building a repoir with the workers, and sold those assembled lunches. Within a year, I was self sufficient and moved back out of my parents house and lived life. It was important to me, to be there when my kid got went to school and got home from school. I figured a way to do that and support us as well. From that platform, and many years later, I am married and we now have our own business as well. trying to help others and retire ourselves without the dependency of medicare, as I can see it wont be available for us.The govnmt has stifled us from every direction, and for what? to give my pattern of sacrifice and effort to someone who doesn't want to make it for themselves? that's BS anyway you want to slice it. And I help others all the time, so I care for others. I have zero problem giving someone a hand up, but not..a hand out! if a 17yo can do it, so can others. I made the sacrifices, so can others.
Mary Lou
9:59 am on Friday, November 2, 2012
To be distracted by a shiny object? yep..maybe as inspiration and drive for what I wanted for myself and child. But never, stolen from someone else pocket to throw in mine. I have way too much moral fiber than to steal from another to benefit or support mine.
Mary Lou
10:03 am on Friday, November 2, 2012
and no..I dont still sell sandwiches/lunches like I did back then, we have moved onto to bigger and better things in the business world. But because of all this, I have had to let 4 employees go and can only afford to retain 2. Looking like those other 2 may be in peril not too far off away either.
Tammy Osier
11:23 am on Friday, November 2, 2012
GG- i said that because of this statement by you:
Depends on who's running. When Gore won the popular vote in 2000 but lost the election because of Jeb Bush's State of Florida election shenanigans, I was very much anti-Electoral College.
Good Grief Y'all
12:08 pm on Friday, November 2, 2012
Uh, yeah, and did you read further? "What a different - and by that I mean better - America and world this would be now with a Gore presidency for 8 yrs instead of what we got. For this election, I'm counting on it. It's too close for my comfort. When and if election reform to ensure every legal vote cast is counted without error, fraud or tampering, campaign finance reform is achieved and Citizens United is overruled - the Electoral College can go away. In that reality, every vote should count as cast."
In any case, you were stating what I am, not what you think I am, not giving an opinion. In other words, you were judging me and attempting to define me, and it was negative. Getting my way is not how or why I vote. I vote for a good outcome beyond my own comfort. I am not selfish. I take issue with your otherwise characterization of me. I believe that's a personal attack. Doubtful the moderators will agree with me b/c you're a long-time participant. But, that's how it felt. You might have a more successful, reasonable bipartisan exchange with others if you leave off the personal attacks and judgment. But that's just my opinion. :D
Good Grief Y'all
11:45 am on Friday, November 2, 2012
Oh, my, TMI.
Good Grief Y'all
12:13 pm on Friday, November 2, 2012
Mary Lou, sounds like you took my distraction statement personally. I was speaking in general terms, not at you or about you. Does somebody need a hug?
Mary Lou
12:36 pm on Friday, November 2, 2012
Not at all good grief - I was speaking about the general population as well, based on my own experiences in life. I dont need a hug to do what I would expect most able bodied people to do. I'm just tired of my efforts being wasted to fight from being stolen from- to hand the Jane or Joe blow that's too lazy to get off their butt and go work and make a way for themselves or their family if they carry such a responsibility. The current admins policies, are not about people doing such. Lazy people are given a pass and a new defined label in life as less fortunate and such. That pass they are given, is my money to support them. Its given to them against my choice and will, by stealing it from me in various policy titles. In the process, they also ripped off 4 peoples jobs out from under them, because our backs are broken. I will never need accolades for doing what your suppose to be doing. But I also wont give a pass, for those who make excuses and call it something its not, like needy, less fortunate, etc.
Good Grief Y'all
6:19 pm on Friday, November 2, 2012
Election system reform should be accomplished in a way that would ensure we never again have the Supreme Court choose our President, as happened in 2000 with the Bush-Gore contest. That left a bad taste for many years and no doubt contributed to our current state of polarization.
Tammy Osier
9:10 pm on Friday, November 2, 2012
In order to break it down into easy pieces, let's examine one reason at a time. What if the majority opinion (popular) was to enslave men again, would you then want the popular vote? Or what if there were more of one race than the other and there was some kind of friction between the two, and the majority was the bad guy. Would you still want the popular vote? I agree, that today, money and power make for a bad bed fellow when it comes to electorals (unions come to mind). I wish there were a better way as well.
Tammy Osier
9:14 pm on Friday, November 2, 2012
I also asked anothr quetion- what if the majority was Republican? Would you still then want it?
Did anyone read the Armstrong Williams link? It's the best I've heard for a while. His perspective is a very unique one.
Mary Lou
10:11 pm on Friday, November 2, 2012
@Tammy- I read it and agree to much. Yes, I do question the system and could go back in forth on good points and bad on both, however, its too important to trust what the culture is right now. Meaning..so many people are caught up in the next american idol, who is dancing with the stars, the kardashians and the likes. So many people have the mentality of wanting to stay in their bubble and let someone else do it. Thats too risky to trust something as important as electing a president on popularity. Its what people base that popularity on. Who looks better? who speaks(lies) better? I mean my Gosh, we have ads running on TV now comparing the election to one losing their virginity. If people would actual pay attention, look at records, share similar values, be on the same page on the BIG issues, and vote conscience..then another way would be better maybe. JMHO
Tammy Osier
9:52 pm on Saturday, November 3, 2012
M L what gets me is that liberals on here will NOT answer tocthoae types of questions or comments. Its telling that they know its wrong but still don't care. Can't or wont answer to the nasty ads or comments that are disrespectful. Only answer by calling us ugly stuff. Sounds like school yard bullies that ignore the wrong they do.
Tammy Osier
9:56 pm on Saturday, November 3, 2012
ML also, saw something the other night where an interviewer asked random Obama supporters some questions on Romney's policies. Only they were Obama policies. They said no way they could support those policies calling them immoral and wrong. Then the Guy told them that he was really talking about Obama policies. How do you think they reacted?
Mary Lou
10:32 pm on Saturday, November 3, 2012
LOL...wish I would have seen that! I'm sure it went into instant spin mode on steroids!..lmbo. Is it on you tube somewhere?
Long Island Dave
11:11 pm on Saturday, November 3, 2012
Hope And Change
Four More Years
Lean Forward
Yes We Can
Obama
NOT!
Our Freedom Won’t Last Four More Years Under Obama’s “Rule”!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imaSx4_04cA&feature=player_embedded
2016: Obama's America - Entire Documentary Here
http://www.butthurt.co/obama/2016
Long Island Dave
11:56 pm on Saturday, November 3, 2012
AND FOR YOUR FREE VIEWING PLEASURE:
2016: Obama's America - Entire Documentary Here
http://www.butthurt.co/obama/2016
Tammy Osier
11:47 am on Sunday, November 4, 2012
M l they reacted by making excuses for Obama) of course. One woman came here from a Communist country and couldn't believe that he would do such a thing, not such a nice Guy. Only one didn't defend him but said he'd have to reconsider.
Tammy Osier
11:49 am on Sunday, November 4, 2012
Marylou IM not home right now. Ill post the link when i get home.
Mary Lou
1:42 pm on Sunday, November 4, 2012
Tammy- Thank you! will be keeping an eye out for that one ;) have a feeling will be my entertainment highlight for the day..lol